Not so technical, but your feedback is requested

[Marc Balmer]

We are soliciting opinions about removing the file /usr/share/misc/airports. The file might have been useful in past times, but in 2014 maybe not so much anymore.

Reasons are:

- The file is outdated compared to IATA sources
- The information is available online and more complete/accurate there
- Why keep a local copy of thia very particular information when it is impractical to maintain? FWIW, there is also an ICAO list of airport codes; and an IATA list of tailway stations etc. do we have these? No. So why keep a list of airports?
- Changes to this file have recently been used to make politcal statements, leading to data no longer being compatible with IATA listings.

(In my personal opinion, the file is almost always outdated, incomplete and otherwise more or less unusable.)

[Alan Barrett]

Post by Marc Balmer
We are soliciting opinions about removing the file
/usr/share/misc/airports. The file might have been useful in
past times, but in 2014 maybe not so much anymore.

I often use the airports file, and I appreciate having the
information available offline. If I am forced to rely on online
sources instead, I will be only slightly inconvenienced.

Post by Marc Balmer
- The file is outdated compared to IATA sources
- The information is available online and more complete/accurate there
- Why keep a local copy of thia very particular information when
it is impractical to maintain? FWIW, there is also an ICAO list
of airport codes; and an IATA list of tailway stations etc. do
we have these? No. So why keep a list of airports?

We could automate syncing the file with IATA sources.

Post by Marc Balmer
- Changes to this file have recently been used to make politcal
statements, leading to data no longer being compatible with IATA
listings.

That's a bug. Any differences between our file and IATA sources
should be resolved in favour of the IATA source, or some other
reliable source. In particular, NetBSD should not be in the
business of deciding which country an airport is in.

--apb (Alan Barrett)

[Heasley]

Post by Marc Balmer
We are soliciting opinions about removing the file /usr/share/misc/airports. The file might have been useful in past times, but in 2014 maybe not so much anymore.

I often use the airports file, and I appreciate having the information available offline. If I am forced to rely on online sources instead, I will be only slightly inconvenienced.

Post by Marc Balmer
- The file is outdated compared to IATA sources
- The information is available online and more complete/accurate there
- Why keep a local copy of thia very particular information when it is impractical to maintain? FWIW, there is also an ICAO list of airport codes; and an IATA list of tailway stations etc. do we have these? No. So why keep a list of airports?

We could automate syncing the file with IATA sources.

Possibly as a port? I too find it useful.

Post by Marc Balmer
- Changes to this file have recently been used to make politcal statements, leading to data no longer being compatible with IATA listings.

That's a bug. Any differences between our file and IATA sources should be resolved in favour of the IATA source, or some other reliable source. In particular, NetBSD should not be in the business of deciding which country an airport is in.
--apb (Alan Barrett)

[Thomas Klausner]

Post by Alan Barrett
We could automate syncing the file with IATA sources.

http://www.iata.org/publications/Pages/coding.aspx claims the download
of the airport location identifiers lists costs over USD 1000.

At http://www.iata.org/publications/Pages/code-search.aspx there is a
search page where you can enter locations and get their codes (or the
other way round).
Thomas

[Mindaugas Rasiukevicius]

Post by Thomas Klausner

Post by Alan Barrett
We could automate syncing the file with IATA sources.

http://www.iata.org/publications/Pages/coding.aspx claims the download
of the airport location identifiers lists costs over USD 1000.
At http://www.iata.org/publications/Pages/code-search.aspx there is a
search page where you can enter locations and get their codes (or the
other way round).

You can also find them on Wikipedia (either by search or a list):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Civil_Aviation_Organization_airport_code

I would vote for the removal of src/share/misc/airport, though.

[Mindaugas Rasiukevicius]

Post by Alan Barrett

Post by Marc Balmer
- Changes to this file have recently been used to make politcal
statements, leading to data no longer being compatible with IATA
listings.

That's a bug. Any differences between our file and IATA sources
should be resolved in favour of the IATA source, or some other
reliable source. In particular, NetBSD should not be in the
business of deciding which country an airport is in.

Then please fix it.

[Christian Koch]

Post by Marc Balmer
We are soliciting opinions about removing the file /usr/share/misc/airports.
The file might have been useful in past times, but in 2014 maybe not so much
anymore.
- The file is outdated compared to IATA sources
- The information is available online and more complete/accurate there
- Why keep a local copy of thia very particular information when it is
impractical to maintain? FWIW, there is also an ICAO list of airport codes;
and an IATA list of tailway stations etc. do we have these? No. So why keep a
list of airports?
- Changes to this file have recently been used to make politcal statements,
leading to data no longer being compatible with IATA listings.
(In my personal opinion, the file is almost always outdated, incomplete and
otherwise more or less unusable.)

Although I find the airports file useful from time to time, it would probably be
better to put it into package management. That way, people with the bandwidth to
update it actually will be able to. Also, people who find the airport file
useless would be OK with not having it on their systems. (OTOH, you don't need
to install *all* of the installation sets...)

While on the subject, I suppose this is also true for /usr/share/dict/words. In
my experience even that list is outdated! (It can also be debated what should
count as a word.) For example, neither "kid" nor "kidding" appear, which are
totally English words.

I have personally always wanted an offline English dictionary more than any
other reference (with definitions and everything) but (1) recent editions of the
most important dictionaries, such as Merriam-Webster, are under strict copyright
and are non-free, and (2) it really shouldn't be the responsibility of an OS to
maintain this kind of information anyway.

-Christian

[John Hawkinson]

Post by Christian Koch
While on the subject, I suppose this is also true for
/usr/share/dict/words. In my experience even that list is outdated!
(It can also be debated what should count as a word.) For example,
neither "kid" nor "kidding" appear, which are totally English words.

I would like to offer more than mild objection here. /usr/dict/words
(or /usr/share/...) is a standard fixture of Unix systems, and having
a word list is extremely useful; some applications/tools/scripts
depend on it, for things like "pick a random word to name something"
(in non-cryptographic applications).

I find the words file useful, even though I don't use it for
spellchecking, and it would break my deployed systems to have it
removed.

I think it is a poor choice for removal, and the tradition is strong with it.

(As I expressed to Marc, I find the airports file useful for domestic
US airports, but I have no opinion on its removal. I am also troubled
by the blind use of "we" in the removal proposal, though.)

--***@mit.edu
John Hawkinson

[Christian Koch]

Post by John Hawkinson

Post by Christian Koch
While on the subject, I suppose this is also true for
/usr/share/dict/words. In my experience even that list is outdated!
(It can also be debated what should count as a word.) For example,
neither "kid" nor "kidding" appear, which are totally English words.

I would like to offer more than mild objection here. /usr/dict/words
(or /usr/share/...) is a standard fixture of Unix systems, and having
a word list is extremely useful; some applications/tools/scripts
depend on it, for things like "pick a random word to name something"
(in non-cryptographic applications).
I find the words file useful, even though I don't use it for
spellchecking, and it would break my deployed systems to have it
removed.
I think it is a poor choice for removal, and the tradition is strong with it.

I had no idea it was such a mainstay. I just personally have no use for it. If
the purpose of /usr/share/dict/words is to have a big list of words (as opposed
to a definitive collection of all words) then I suppose removing it isn't very
helpful after all.

Meanwhile, if the purpose of /usr/share/misc/airport is to have a definitive and
complete list of airports, then it seems that online resources are simply more
comprehensive.

-Christian

[Rhialto]

Post by Christian Koch
/usr/share/dict/words.
it really shouldn't be the responsibility of an OS to maintain this
kind of information anyway.

But Unix isn't just an operating system, it is historically a document
preparation system. See
http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/aix/library/au-textprocess.html. And
the various papers in the User's Supplementary Documents that were
typically distributed with Unix (and partially still with NetBSD). From
cvs/src/share/doc/usd/00.contents I list (not all are still included
with NetBSD, but of many I have hardcopies from an Ultrix grey wall):

Text Editing

.tl 'A Tutorial Introduction to the Unix Text Editor''USD:9'
.tl 'Advanced Editing on Unix''USD:10'
.tl 'An Introduction to Display Editing with Vi''USD:11'
.tl 'Ex Reference Manual (Version 3.7)''USD:12'
.tl 'Vi Reference Manual''USD:13'
.tl 'Jove Manual for UNIX Users''USD:14'
.tl 'SED \- A Non-interactive Text Editor''USD:15'
.tl 'AWK \- A Pattern Scanning and Processing Language (Second Edition)''USD:16'

Document Preparation

.tl 'Typing Documents on UNIX: Using the \-ms Macros with Troff and Nroff''USD:17'
.tl 'A Revised Version of \-ms''USD:18'
.tl 'Writing Papers with \fInroff\fR using \-me''USD:19'
.tl '\-me Reference Manual''USD:20'
.tl 'NROFF/TROFF User\'s Manual''USD:21'
.tl 'A TROFF Tutorial''USD:22'
.tl 'A System for Typesetting Mathematics''USD:23'
.tl 'Typesetting Mathematics \- User\'s Guide (Second Edition)''USD:24'
.tl 'Tbl \- A Program to Format Tables''USD:25'
.tl 'Refer \- A Bibliography System''USD:26'
.tl 'Some Applications of Inverted Indexes on the UNIX System''USD:27'
.tl 'BIB \- A Program for Formatting Bibliographies''USD:28'
.tl 'Writing Tools \- The STYLE and DICTION Programs''USD:29'

-Olaf.